This is why I say do IRT now and level provisions for the future. North of Fulton theres a park for it to curve through, similar to your design for the Second Ave. If you tried to create a branch off of Fulton for Utica it would be very costly and awkward, but not impossible. The Utica Avenue station is an express station on the IND Fulton Street Line of the New York City Subway. My first thought was that this doesnt jibe with LEX being the busiest single line but then I tallied the ridership numbers for the three lines that go up the west side for a number thats 2 and a half times as big. A flying junction could in fact be built using the existing provisions but the new platform would have to be south of the existing station. You took the time to write a response but not to read what I wrote? In 1977, the fight to save Utica Union Station and the Adirondack Railway's plans to reopen the abandoned Utica-Lake Placid line prompted formation of the Utica & Mohawk Valley Chapter. Subway to Williamsburg Bridge proposal.. Your 3/4 routing doesnt work anymore. Skip stop on Fulton? On the other hand, your SAS plans involve building at least two complicated junctions to active tracks (including one under the East River) and lots of reliability-tanking interlining. How can build the Utica Ave Subway? Extensions of the IRT subway east or south of the station have been proposed since the line's planning in the 1910s, which included terminating the line at Buffalo Avenue just east of the station, or extending the line down Utica Avenue towards Flatbush Avenue and Avenue U near Kings Plaza. Low ceiling over the middle of the station, Last edited on 21 November 2022, at 17:27, Learn how and when to remove this template message, "NEW SUBWAY LINK OPENED BY MAYOR; He Tells 15,000 in Brooklyn It Will Be Extended to Queens When Red Tape Is Cut", "Facts and Figures: Annual Subway Ridership 20142019", http://www.thejoekorner.com/indsecondsystem/uticaave.htm, http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/Utica.ceil2.jpg, http://ltvsquad.com/Locations/urbanexploration.php?ID=187, "Utica Av AC Station Becomes the 82nd Fully ADA Accessible Subway Station", Children's Cathedral Artwork by Jimmy James Green (1996), Abandoned Stations: IND Second System unfinished stations, Utica Avenue entrance from Google Maps Street View, Stuyvesant Avenue entrance from Google Maps Street View, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Utica_Avenue_station&oldid=1123074324, Fare control, station agent, Metrocard machines, to closed Utica Avenue Line platforms, Connection between upper mezzanine and westbound trains, Connection between upper mezzanine and eastbound trains, South side of Fulton Street west of Utica Avenue, at, South side of Fulton Street west of Stuyvesant Avenue, North side of Fulton Street west of Stuyvesant Avenue, This page was last edited on 21 November 2022, at 17:27. [8][9][10] On April 28, 1908, the IRT formally applied with the New York Public Service Commission for permission to open the final section of the Contract 2 line from Borough Hall to Atlantic Avenue near the Flatbush Avenue LIRR station. Bubble the reworking there to the top of the list and once done it can do 12 B Div. I was gonna comment this on Build Transit Where Its Most Effective, Not Where Its Least Expensive but comments were closed. Yet youd have it built to B division clearances. The station spacing was done to keep costs down. Just an idea! Flatbush Av-Brooklyn College is 2338 yards away, 28 min walk. On narrow right of way, place one track at ground level and the other above. Spend that 343 million in 9-year-old dollars and where do the additional runs go? Located at Utica Avenue and Fulton Street in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, it is served by the A train at all times and the C train at all times except late nights. With subway costs so high els may be the only way to go. mind=the same Located under Eastern Parkway near Utica Avenue in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, it is served by the 4 train at all times and the 3 train at all times except late nights. The station's I-beam columns are painted maroon, alternating ones having the standard black station name plate with white lettering. subways or open cut sections. You could replace Lafayette Ave with a new station that joins the fray and then shares track with the R. All tunnels built after the original subway were built to B Division standards. They must be pillar free for security. Contract 2 extended the original line from City Hall in Manhattan to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. But I think it was for a different one than the four you give. And on what route? 10. Planning may have actually begun. Oh well, maybe that will help since Im taking the express trains away from Nostrand. In fact Id discount any curve adjacent to a station by about 50%. From the South 4th St station to Eastern Parkway is another 3 miles which would parallel the existing J/M/Z trains. If the C leaves, the A becomes even more crowded/congested. Touring: F train to East Broadway. 7. But they can be overcome piece by piece whereas it would be one big jump from IRT sizing. because Im so taken with the main idea of applying a new technique to On the New Lots Avenue-bound platform, the track walls have a section of yellow-orange tiles beneath the trim-line and another line of yellow tiles on the bottom of the tiled portions. For a first phase, I could see going only as far as Clarendon Road and the following trackage. On the Utica Ave. subway, a half-baked idea with no champion written by Benjamin Kabak February 28, 2017 The Utica Ave. subway extension has once again disappeared into the ether of New York City politics. It was the result of a partnership between the Hopi tribe and a group of Route 66 aficionados who are dedicated to preserving the heritage of this iconic road. Queens Blvd is one of the busiest trunk lines in the city, so its definitely a second on the priority list, and even with East Side Access the MTA has set aside room to build the connecting tracks for the Bypass. You are proposing adding a couple billion dollars for what isnt all that much more capacity in the grand scheme. Small black tile captions reading "UTICA" in white lettering on a black background run below the trim line at regular intervals. 3. I outlined my plans for 2nd Ave in a previous post but one thing I only mentioned in passion was how Phase 4 could be achieved cheaper if it was connected to Nassau St after Chatham Sq (as in, 2nd Ave would not connect to Centre St by Bowery by to Nassau St by Chambers). In my futureNYCSubway plans over the years Ive always included Utica Ave in one form or another but one of the reasons I drew my NYC Subway Track Map was so I could see what I was really dealing with so we know what is really possible. South of Kings Highway, due to the aforementioned geological issues, the line would have to be elevated. Most of the subway system in New York City no longer has that feel . [7] The outer track walls are made of tile and have a maroon trim line with a dark maroon border. Av D/Utica Av is 480 yards away, 6 min walk. Anyone bemoaning the fact that President St. and Nostrand Ave arent connected? 7 of NYC's Abandoned Subway Stations: City Hall, 18th St, Worth Street, Myrtle Ave, 91st St 9 of NYC's Abandoned and Incomplete Subway Platforms and Levels 5 of NYC's Never Completed or. It also depends on adding a new service to Fulton, which Im all for, but as stated in the piece Eastern Parkway already has the extra service which can just be extended. Well then what are we waiting for? The S could probably do full-time service from either Euclid Ave or Utica Av to Rockaway Blvd. Then Utica can fulfill both roles but as of now the only important section is south of Eastern Parkway. 14 St. W 14 St and 7th Ave, W 13 St and 7th Ave, W 12 St and 7th Ave. Two island platforms. Adding another train to Queens Blvd is a problem. The station has four tracks and two island platforms, typical for a four-track express station. Now we know late nights the 3/5 dont run in Brooklyn. 11. What are the closest stations to Utica Avenue? I would totally be open to the idea of just using Nassau and keeping the B/D on the Manhattan Bridge. Members hailed the decision to save the station, and were encouraged by the public response to the Adirondack operation, despite its ultimate bankruptcy. [3] Half a political lifetime ago, Bill de Blasio seemed interested in extending transit to under-served neighborhoods on his own. Also as Vanshookenraggen stated, the IND Utica Av Station will have to be teared up and relocated. There were blocked stairways up from the platform level to the upper level that were removed during the station's renovation. Today, police released a photo of the suspect, who is still at large. 4. Would it be possible to connect the Utica Avenue like with the Fulton Street line? Building a subway in these conditions means having to deal with tunnel flooding more so than normal and flooding means corrosion. Great idea. In California money itd be about 2. So thats what the future holds: deep tunnels and expensive stations. The A/C line in Brooklyn cant be tampered with, because both trains are crowded during rush hours, and the A or C cant be diverted before Broadway Junction, because then at the nearest express station, your going to see a huge crowd, and the point of Broadway Junction is to drop off the passangers to other trains to get home or to get to work. The 2 track Worth St Line would require a 3.15 mile tunnel from Tribeca to Williamsburg. Passangers want a train for the East and West Sides.By switching the 3 and 5 youre forcing passangers to make a crossover at Franklin when they could easily just have a one seat ride from Utica or Flatbush Av. Everything else is a single or double story commercial or light industrial building, parking lot, and one school. By the early 1920s, its population had swelled to more than 10,000. station count on BWY7 and 8AV between 110th and 72nd. BED-STUY, BROOKLYN A person was hit and killed by a train at Utica Avenue station in Bed-Stuy on Wednesday morning, according to the MTA and FDNY. Also the train that stays down Fulton past Utica would now have 4 terminals, Euclid Ave, Ozone Park, and The Rockaways. At its peak, it had more than 50 businesses.. No doubt they will propose some deep bore subway with expensive stations that will take a decade or more to build.. Abandoned Stations List; . Secondly is that the IND plan, like most of their plans, was wildly over designed and would require extra miles of subway from Eastern Parkway to the Lower East Side as well as a much wider 4 track trunk line instead of the IRTs proposed 2/3 track line (much like the New Lots branch the line would have been built with 2 tracks and space for a third to be added later). When the booth and turnstile bank are closed, three HEET turnstiles and one exit-only turnstile provide access to/from the entrance. and Park Aves commuter train viaduct looks good all the time. [23], The station's full-time exit is at the east end (railroad south) of the platforms. With these and the IRT provisions in place Utica Ave was always so tantalizingly close. Youve recognized its unused capacity and proposed filling it by connection to Jamaica Ave.; a Utica Ave. branch could work as well.. This staircase leads up to a small mezzanine where there is a token booth and turnstiles. [15] The underground portion of the line became known as the Eastern Parkway Line, or Route 12, while the elevated portion became known as the New Lots Line. Crown HeightsUtica Avenue station was constructed as part of the Eastern Parkway Line. Unlike the Utica Ave stretch, the Flatbush Ave structure would run along the center of the street on a modern concrete viaduct (similar to what the AirTrain uses long Van Wyck Expressway). We dont need to tear down the EL. Look at the ceiling from the open platform, and at the mezzanine area at the north end. Mayor Bill de Blasio has asked the Metropolitan Transportation Authority to examine bringing No. It stands to reason, then, that the massive South 4th Subway with branches to Utica Ave and along Myrtle Ave was designed to replace the Broadway and Myrtle Ave Els as well. But for Brooklyn, maybe 4? Quickly checking the map I see the same 6 Its smarter to do a IRT Utica line because the demand for a Utica Av Line is not in Bed-Stuy and Williamsburg, but in East Flatbush, Flatlands, and Mill Basin. Most of these riders are coming from the bus so simply extending the IRT south isnt going to strain the system. But the question is what is more dire, commuters coming from Wall St (with their many different subway options) or those coming from Williamsburg (with the congested L)? Four side platforms. The other spur would have led up Myrtle Ave. where the line would split again. But after World War II priority shifted to rehabilitating the existing system and even through Utica Ave would be featured in many of the post-War expansion plans there always seemed to be other projects that got chosen first. While there are arguments to be made for extending the Nostrand Ave Line south I would argue that with the addition of Utica Ave that demand would be reduced as riders coming from the east or southeast would take Utica over a bus to Nostrand. (Plans for a Utica Ave. subway in 1969 involved extending the IRT instead of the IND.) 3 trains dont go to Brooklyn late nights. and has a much less dominating effect. RPA proposes extending the line on a gradual diagonal from 25th Street and 11th Avenue to Ninth Avenue and 14th Street, with a Station at 25th/23rd between 11th and 10th Avenues. Given the upfront costs of building it that seems like a waste (yes, 2nd Ave only hits that with the Q but it is at least designed to add the T later on). In order to avoid trains passing at grade you need to segregate the local and express trains. No spidery stairwells going to the ground. These look less industrial than plain I know this is something that the City wont consider if they ever release their Utica Ave plan which is why I want to start the discussion now. The upper level at Utica Ave station on the Fulton Line would be used but only half of the existing structure would be needed since the modern line would be two tracks. Like Court Square-Court Square awkward? Many transit activists I talk to refuse any plan which would take a single building but this is unrealistic in any city. The tracks are outlined by a pattern in the ceiling on top of the four trackways at the Utica Avenue station; therefore it appears that there are four trackways and two island platforms running diagonally across the ceiling in the center. 2- rebuild the Eastern Pkwy Station so that there are provisions for the line to pass through. The 3 cannot be extended as, in order to get the most capacity out of the line, the Rogers Junction needs to be rebuilt and this will segregate local and express trains. What companies run services between Newark Penn Station, NJ, USA and Utica Avenue Station, NY, USA? 3 and 4 train service through East . There is also limited rush hour 2 and 5 services here. Then you can continue trains on into Brooklyn. The transit desert is along Utica Ave south of Eastern Parkway. In 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since. Ive thought of three more elevated footprint lightening techniques; these are all actually in use right now: 9. 31, is a three-track elevated line. Checking schedules for the A and C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for Utica St. service. When the 4/5 isnt running in Bkyln, the 2/3 will do usual service, and a shuttle will serve Kings Plaza. Use upside down flying buttresses (floating buttresses?). Same goes for if a problem happens by Flatbush or Utica, a train can be easily detoured to another branch. Although not in the official report, soon after it was proposed to connect 14th St to Utica Ave. Off-road (Chicago style). Even today Utica makes too much sense. Theyll meet up down the road. [12], There are four stair entrances, all on Fulton Street:[13]. Thank you. The biggest issue I have with you routings is that it ignores the changes that need to happen at Rogers Junction. Late nights a shuttle will run from Franklin Av to New Lots Av. So maybe building the subway part of Utica isnt appropriate at this time. The I-beams and other steel work along the track walls are painted in dark blue. The line was proposed to cut across town to Columbus Circle, one avenue block away. The Crown Heights-Utica Avenue station is an express station on the IRT Eastern Parkway Line of the New York City Subway. Maybe place one of the Ls tracks in the cut and the other over it at street level? When the IND built their lines they did so with room for expansion and most of the provisions and abandoned sections that did get built had something to do with Utica Ave. Two narrow staircases and one elevator connect both platforms to a small upper level mezzanine that has two public restrooms (one for men and the other for women) and leads to a bank of turnstiles. el structures around Broadway Junction. The first would create a new flying junction below Eastern Parkway which would allow all trains to merge on their own tracks freely and the second would install two switches just pas the junction letting express trains bypass local trains. So your service pattern would look something like this, which is perfectly doable, north of 63rd Q, T to Fulton local, 15TPH each I would love to see a post about a light rail system , Not very sure about the constraints of light rail (besides politicians lol) Most of southeast Brooklyn is built out already, the new development would require upzoning and will take time. In 2015 Mayor Bill de Blasio even proposed bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since. que mangent les gendarmes insectes. Run it through there to the Culver line where it can be the additional service that justifies reopening the express level. Weekends the 3 runs in Bkyln so it can serve New Lots as usual on weekends. The junction is built awkwardly where the tunnels are twisting in such a way to become bi-level. They will have elevators or ramps for handicapped access. This leads me to propose that the first part of the plan to be built is the Utica Ave stretch from Eastern Parkway to Kings Plaza connecting to the IRT Eastern Parkway Line but with provisions for a future extension north (all tunnels would be built to the larger B division specs). More complicated than it needs to be. 480-foot B locals are actually 31 feet shorter than IRT local trains yet have more room because theyre wider. While cost is an obvious reason for building an elevated over a subway there are also geological concerns in this area as the land through which Utica Ave runs has a very high water table and very sandy soil. The point is that anything involving using an extension of B Division is more complicated, for no reason, than just extending the IRT. something like that on pillars in refurbished station? Im more in support of an IRT Utica Avenue subway and now you made a Rogers Junction plan clear. Place station house under tracks in median. Look at how grades were avoided on the first line, the popping above ground for 125 St and the extreme depth of some of the Washington Heights stations. It will extend easterly from Buffalo avenue and Eastern parkway via East 98th street and Livonia avenue to New Lots avenue. Double-deck single tracks. Even before revenue service or full tunnels were dug the six-track station was a relic of another era. 1135 Eastern Parkway. [18], On November 22, 1920, the first portion of the IRT New Lots Line opened between Utica Avenue and Junius Street opened on November 22, 1920, with shuttle trains operating over this route. hunting lodge motif with crossbeams. A lower cost solution to your previous I never said I disagreed with staging it so that Utica is first built. This final station is worth considering because even though half the catchment area is parkland and the Mill Basin canal the station would serve the popular Kings Plaza Mall and there is space for a modern bus terminal for better service around southeastern Brooklyn and to the Rockaways. Between Myrtle-Broadway and Fulton St the line would down Stuyvesant Ave. No stations along this stretch were detailed by IND engineers but given typical station spacing one could guess that two stations would be needed, one between Lafayette and Greene Aves and another at Halsey St. Charlestown USA Outlet Mall (Utica) This old, abandoned, former mill site was once one of the first shopping centers to locate in the Mohawk Valley. You are correct that the larger option would require shutting down service which is one reason Im in favor of the smaller option. The Utica Avenue station is an express station on the IND Fulton Street Line of the New York City Subway. A 2 track line would only require half the space, 45 feet and with 100ft lots this leaves room for an ingenious workaround. The Utica Ave Subway has always played second fiddle to its more well known and well documented younger sibling 2nd Ave. Lower track becomes less of a climb. The Board of Rapid Transit Commissioners approved the route on September 27, 1900,[6] and the contract was signed on September 11, 1902. Have higher ceilings and most likely some sort of air cooling system for comfort. We have a new formula for success: were going to aim for an average team height of 5 3. It wont serve all of Utica; just the portion that doesnt have parallel service on Nostrand. The New Lots branch of the IRT ascends to the surface right after it leaves Eastern Parkway (due very much to the terrain) and it would make sense that the IRT would have the Utica Line do the same. Arent they doing But thats how I see it. The additional traffic warranting the fix will come Utica but you want the Utica service on the EPL express tracks which carry over to LEX. Anyway: I think that lots of expansions where there is no ROW to just place cars on, instead could be put into service as light rail (granted there are no obstacles like narrow roads and triggered politicians who cause everything to stop working) could be a nice supplement to the subway (free transfers too!) Just a quick suggestion yes, the IRT version of the Utica Line would be most practical, but wouldnt it also be somewhat more effective to build it to IND standards? In addition, a two-track branch line along Nostrand Avenue branching off east of the Franklin Avenue station was to be constructed. The two street stairs here lead to either mall of Eastern Parkway west of Utica Avenue. This configuration would have other benefits as the riders who are now coming from furthest away have default express trips while the 7th Ave Express-Eastern Parkway Local 2/3 trains can now have more even headways, reducing delays. Meaning if the Livonia Yards are overcrowded and a train-related incident happens at Franklin;blocking off service to Manhattan, trains can run between New Lots and Flatbush and/or Kings Plaza and Flatbush. Your plan strips the West End from one-seat access to Chinatown and Midtown. You can take a bus from Newark Penn Station to Utica Avenue Station via Port Authority Bus Terminal, 9th Ave/42nd St, Atlantic Av/4 Av, Dean St/4 Av, and Dean St/Utica Av in around 1h 52m. I just noticed not just the rough formatting and typos but Id accidentally truncated my handle to H. And I though drafting it offline would reduce mistakes! Also (while a 4 track yard is good for Relay past Brooklyn College.) NEW YORK, NY - Police are seeking a man who allegedly exposed himself and performed a 'lewd act' in the presence of a 21-year-old female subway passenger. Now we reach Utica Ave. Renovations also added new old-fashioned light fixtures with modern sodium-vapor lamps in them, which are suspended on long rods from the high, vaulted ceilings. For example, why build a Lafayette Av branch off of Crosstown when instead a cheap connection between the (G)/(J)/(M) could be built at Broadway. Re: your Second Avenue plans and connecting to the Queens Blvd Line; those concerns are only salient if you assume the Queens Blvd Bypass is never going to happen. Merchant groups arent going to sue you for driving their business away. Existing abandoned portions: Part of a station for 2 tracks and two side platforms. While those numbers are nothing to scoff at, especially as they have seen over 10% increases in ridership over the last decade, the E train at Jamaica-Parsons sees ridership of over 12 million annually. This station has two fare control areas, one at either end. B: I wouldnt worry much about curves coming into terminals. Another elevator from the south mall leads to fare control.[23]. street-side condemnation would be for the head-houses. Its got limitations now, sure. In 2001, an empty lot at Avenue N and Utica Avenue marked a trolley layup area that still hadn't been built on. I dont disagree that extending Nostrand is a good idea rather that as the only option is a subway that increases costs. It has to go BWY7 which means local tracks in Brooklyn. Oh yeah. While this would leave said train with two terminals, Far Rockaway and Ozone Park, this would leave said train heavily congested, because most passengers want to go from Midtown to East New York or The Rockaways, not Midtown to Kings Plaza. Some of your points might show good benefits of IRT use but only in part. Also if most people are going to midtown (which Id argue given the census data I show isnt the case) then there is nothing in the way of this with the new routing. Exit-Only turnstile provide access to/from the entrance all the time to write a response but not to read I. Such a way to become bi-level as part of Utica isnt appropriate at this.! C tells me that they max out at 17, leaving 9 slots for Utica it be. Bringing the line back and supposedly the MTA has been studying the plan since to at. Well, maybe that will help since Im taking the express level block away MTA. Service which is one reason Im in favor of the list and done! 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